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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1679
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Posted - 2015.09.17 19:07:49 -
[1] - Quote
A clarification please, to shut down a tower means a 24 hr wait before you can unanchor it, at which point it is in hull only until unanchored?
if so Yay! I think I made a suggestion that was actually sensible :D This would mean player corps setting up a station in hisec would have to commit to defending a structure or lose it.
As for WH space how about instead of NPC fairies magicating the stuff out to NPC stations it is ejected and warped off much like planetary launches. If the WH group maintained someone in the hole they can at least map a route and bring the rest of the corp back in to recover some of the stuff but there is still the risk of losing everything if you lose presence in the hole.
I still think that either a rig or module to allow automated defenses would be good, this would allow some defence whilst unmanned but at the expense of the utility of the citadel. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1680
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Posted - 2015.09.18 09:58:57 -
[2] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:afkalt wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Maenth wrote:The vast majority of what I see in this dev blog is pretty cool and I'm happy, and want to know more! However, I must agree with one or more people on one point: Quote:We revaluated our position on Wormhole space asset safety from our GÇ£I feel safe in Citadel cityGÇ¥ blog. Structures destroyed in wormhole space will see all of their assets lost when destroyed and subject to the magical loot fairy rules that would normally apply for ship cargohold. That is not okay. Everybody gets absolutely nonsensically magical asset safety but then destroyed citadels in wormholes can't even shunt their loots to a friendly citadel within the same system? That is not okay. Either everybody who sets up a Citadel should get a degree of asset safety out of it, or nobody should. Pickiong wormhole people to not get even the fraction of 'asset safety' that everybody else benefits from.... Even within the heartless world of destruction that is EVE, that's pretty unfair and cruel. CCP is caught between a rock and a hard place on this one. A very vocal group asked for loot drop in WH space. CCP listened to their arguments and complied. Now the other side is coming out to register their complaints. Personally, I would like to see loot drop in all areas of space. That's how you fix it. I don't understand why such safety is expected. It's not like there are any other examples of a "sympathy" fairy spiriting your wrecks loot away. I completely agree. Asset safety via magical space fairies has no place in Eve. All structures should have 50% of the contents destroyed and 50% drop as loot. Don't build what you cannot afford to lose.
It's not just the building and losing though, these structures are supposed to be used as market hubs, who will put stuff in them to sell if it can all go boom without some kind of assurances on asset safety? Note I said assurance not insurance as that opens up exploits.
There needs to be some kind of balance between safety and no safety. Perhaps in the event of a wardec in hisec or losec any stuff on the market or belonging to non corp pilots should be magicated away but the structure owning corps stuff is at some degree of risk. I quite liked the idea proposed earlier where larger structures help mitigate losses more (although this would need to be balanced with the increased fuel usage to make smaller structures viable if somewhat more risky.
nullsec and WH should use the proposed mechanic of warp away cans that pop up in the owners planetary launches menu since there won't be NPC's out there to ferry it (NPC null would have magication but some risk of loss perhaps).
Anything that is actually 'lost' should drop as loot.
ED: Another idea, perhaps the NPC magication of goods should be dependent on one or more 'Emergency Evac' modules being fitted. Increased safety for goods would mean decreased utility on the station itself. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1680
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Posted - 2015.09.18 19:37:26 -
[3] - Quote
Gabriel Karade wrote:I really like the 'built-in Target Spectrum Breaker' idea of Skia Aumer, soft cap as opposed to hard cap, and can be implemented using something already in game (though would need some tweaking I think).
It would be nice to use all those BPC's for something!
Maybe trade them in at 10 old BPC's for a new Citadel Module BPC :)
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1682
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Posted - 2015.09.19 11:36:41 -
[4] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:...
Now, none of this unused junk really contributes to the game play - it just clutters up the database and makes it run slower.
...!
Only if it's indexed badly ;) |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1682
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Posted - 2015.09.19 11:39:04 -
[5] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Grorious Reader wrote:Regarding XL Citadels in WH I know the numbers aren't final or anything, but as they are given the XL citadel will be an incredibly boring grind if it's allowed in w-space. You will basically never get that kind of fire power into somebody else's system. Especially something like a C1 or C2. If those numbers are going to stay in that ballpark, I suggest that XL citadels not be allowed in W-space. If they are designed for super-caps and titans, and L citadels are able to dock/support carriers and dreads, this should not be a loss for anyone and would prevent the sort of "boredom tank" that POSes currently represent in some areas of space. It's the same problem in highsec - the EHP is of the XL is just way too much. The L citadel is proposed to have more EHP than the current large POSes and they are already rarely attacked now in low-class wormholes or in highsec - the tedium is too great. However getting 20 battleships together is at least plausible for a smaller group. But the XL? That will never be lost unless one of the largest groups in the game takes enough interest in you to rope 150+ people into an structure grind. It would take tens of wormholes even to get the battleships into a C2 and a XL in a C1 would be even safer and require more people. This design seems to fail hard, even worse than the current POSes, for allowing players to use boredom as a defensive strategy instead of requiring an active defense. They either need to be limited as to where they can be deployed, there needs to be some way to deliver capital-level DPS against structures in highsec and low-class wormholes, or some mechanism needs to exist to make them much more vulnerable if left undefended (maybe based on entosis ?) so that a group of only 20-30 people have a viable strategy to attack them without grinding them for 10+ hours. As it is, the L and especially the XL will almost never be attacked because of the time cost for the agressors in low-class wormholes and in highsec.
Surely here would be the usual argument leveled against small hisec corps being outnumbered...Hire mercs. Also I thought they were considering allowing capitals into hisec. Maybe this is why. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1682
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Posted - 2015.09.19 11:41:21 -
[6] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Thron Legacy wrote:Gabriel Karade wrote:I really like the 'built-in Target Spectrum Breaker' idea of Skia Aumer, soft cap as opposed to hard cap, and can be implemented using something already in game (though would need some tweaking I think). so you feel safe in your m-class citadel cause it got ecm suddenly marauders Target Spectrum Breaker is not ECM and it affects marauders, dreads and supers. Target Spectrum Breaker affects ships that are otherwise immune to electronic warfare? I did not know this...
Imagine a citadel sized module effect from this! This would guve the graphics team something great to work on too...client rendered ghost returns showing up all around the target citadel... |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1682
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Posted - 2015.09.19 12:40:33 -
[7] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:Surely here would be the usual argument leveled against small hisec corps being outnumbered...Hire mercs. Also I thought they were considering allowing capitals into hisec. Maybe this is why. There aren't enough mercs in all of highsec to field 200 battleships at one time. And that would be only to contest an undefended tower, not one that was actively defending. Only the large nullsec/former nullsec groups can bring the number of players required. I have no problem with players being forced to put something on the table to contest them (like capitals), but whatever the value of that force is, it has to require less than several hundred players to accomplish. A single player should not be able to put up a tower that is all but immune to the combined efforts of less than 200 other players.
Hmmm, I thought the hisec merc corps were pretty big? My mistake and also interesting...
As to fielding large pieces of kit even as a single player if it is expensive enough then why should it not be hard to kill? However I agree that there would also need to be the means to take it down in a reasonable time too.
If XL stations are to be allowed in hisec space then the corresponding ships required to take it down should also be allowed I guess otherwise it becomes imbalanced and space will be cluttered with massive impregnable stations. otherwise there would need to be a size limit on citadels in hisec. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1682
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Posted - 2015.09.19 19:36:05 -
[8] - Quote
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:...
They either need to be limited as to where they can be deployed, there needs to be some way to deliver capital-level DPS against structures in highsec and low-class wormholes, or some mechanism needs to exist to make them much more vulnerable if left undefended (maybe based on entosis ?) so that a group of only 20-30 people have a viable strategy to attack them without grinding them for 10+ hours. As it is, the L and especially the XL will almost never be attacked because of the time cost for the agressors in low-class wormholes and in highsec. The problem regarding XL's in lower class Wormhole systems could easily be resolved by making the initial construct needed to deploy the XL Citadel (Egg? Citadel scaffolding tingie?) so big it could only be carried around in a Freighter. If at the same time CCP chooses to only allow those things to be made in existing stations and/or allready deployed XL Citadels, the problem you stated will never occur. In that case it would not be forbidden to deploy XL's in lower class Wormhole systems, it would just be technically impossible.
edit: No special cases, just Volume = *insert ludicrous number here* (750.000 m3 Packaged)[/quote]
For WH space it depends on the fuel requirements to make it viable to run an XL station. If the sheer logistics are prohibitive then they simply won't be built.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1682
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Posted - 2015.09.19 19:40:13 -
[9] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Vincent Athena wrote: I have to agree. Hardners and ecm are a deterrent. Also: I live in high sec ATM. Say I drop a citadel, then later get a war dec. I realize Real Life will prevent me from being on-line during my vulnerable window. What to do? Scoop! So I propose: you can always just scoop your structure in a timely manner. Like a few hours or less. That means you lose the use of it for the duration, so the war did serve a purpose.
I believe it has been made clear that you will be able to scoop the structures, but you will lose the rigs which will make up the bulk of the cost and provide the bulk of the bonuses if you do so. Seems fair to me. If you want the flexibility of dodging a wardec, you just don't install rigs. If you want those bonuses, you have to commit to defending. Worst case though, if real life keeps you away, you just lose the structures and the rigs and your assets are magically teleported somewhere safe.
Another thought occured to me, if the XL citadels required capitals to destroy them they would need anti-capital weapons to defend themselves in any reasonable manner and as far as I have read the biggest nastiest weapons will be non-empire space only, potentially another reason to limit hisec to large stations.
I say potentially as I'm still undecided on that one. A single player is unlikely to invest in an XL simply due to the fuel logistics to get the benefit from it. They would also be in real trouble trying to defend such an investment alone. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1683
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Posted - 2015.09.21 09:00:33 -
[10] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:As a suggestion, please explain invulnerability and vulnerability windows from a lore point of view. ....
Maintenance windows, the bigger the structure the more is required |
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1683
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Posted - 2015.09.21 09:15:48 -
[11] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Masao Kurata wrote: No it's not.
BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA Yea..... I'm sorry. You are just being unrealistic here expecting to be able to solo kill an XL Citadel in an hour. We are talking the largest heaviest shielded Battle Fortress that players will be able to make. Just because you want to be able to troll anyone who builds one solo.... doesn't make it reasonable. Also buying minerals off the market does not remove the man hours spent mining, and miners don't afk like people claim they do, and are just as important players as everyone else.
But Nevyn...remember that Luke Skywalker managed it in a snub fighter.... |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1683
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Posted - 2015.09.21 09:40:44 -
[12] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Philip Ogtaulmolfi wrote:Black Pedro wrote:No one will contest them if they are released as such. Ergo, they won't be released as such. I am not sure how many times I have to say this. Don't say that others wont do what you are unable to do. Too bad they will never get the chance as the XL structures will never be released like this. CCP Ytterbium has practically confirmed this on reddit as I have linked twice already in this thread. CCP is not going to release a structure into highsec and low-class wormholes that cannot be attacked by the vast majority of the residents that live there. Especially when in the devblog they say they want the structures to be attacked in 30 minutes in all areas of the game. This isn't rocket science people. It's just a numbers game. There is no chance they will be released like this without dreads or some other mechanism so that they can be contested by the groups that actually live in the space where they are deployed. In which case CCP will have made the game too easy and are swayed by the possibility that someone could put an XL into a C1, not sensible at all...
Would a c1 even be valuable enough to warrant the logistics of keeping an XL station running? This may be the biggest point that would put people off in the first place...if it isn't worth it it simply won't be done
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1684
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Posted - 2015.09.22 15:04:32 -
[13] - Quote
So at this point it is safe to say that it is not hisec that is most lucrative as such but rather Incursions that are most lucrative. They occur everywhere so are not a hisec only feature.
If Nevyn's numbers are correct then I think that leaves such a massive structure a little too vulnerable in hisec given that it can't use the really juicy defensive weapons. Perhaps this is intentional to discourage XL use in hisec?
I think this needs some clarification from the Devs as to how they see citadels being used and just how vulnerable they want them to be. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1684
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Posted - 2015.09.22 21:52:48 -
[14] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Dracvlad wrote: Yes and I will tell him that I will do what I do currently with a POS, online it run some refining and then take it down again, nice gameplay that...
You did read you won't be able to do that anymore with Citadels right? They take 24 hours to put up, start in hull right when that wardec comes in and 24 hours to take down
I thought it was a normal unanchor time but a 24 hr cooldown period before you can unanchor?
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1684
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Posted - 2015.09.22 22:00:27 -
[15] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote: I thought it was a normal unanchor time but a 24 hr cooldown period before you can unanchor?
Quote: Once the unanchoring process has started, the structure will become invulnerable for a specific amount of time Once the invulnerability timers runs out, the structure will be vulnerable for damage yet again, with having a repair process identical of whatGÇÖs been mentioned above. This time however, shields, armor and hulls will be fully available
So you become vulnerable for a significant period then the structure finally unanchors.
going to need to re-read that bit again and work it out
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1684
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Posted - 2015.09.22 22:20:49 -
[16] - Quote
OK this is confusing me:
Quote from CCP:
Quote: For anchoring:
The structure goes into a 24 hour invulnerability timer. No damage can be done during that time and the owner cannot cancel this action once it has been confirmed The structure will come out of the invulnerability timer with only its hull layer active and vulnerable to attack (enters the vulnerability states above). As usual, any damage done to the structure while it is vulnerable will cause the repair time to start. Please note however that in this case the structure will only have hull layer available GÇô it is not a fully operational battle station yet, and as such is even more susceptible to damage than usual. Which means if attackers can take it to 0 hit points it will be destroyed on the spot, there will be no further invulnerability phase.
For unanchoring:
Unanchoring may only be started if the structure has full shields and is not within a repair timer. This is to prevent some early bail-out should it be attacked Once the unanchoring process has started, the structure will become invulnerable for a specific amount of time Once the invulnerability timers runs out, the structure will be vulnerable for damage yet again, with having a repair process identical of whatGÇÖs been mentioned above. This time however, shields, armor and hulls will be fully available
This doesn't make much sense to me. How long will the invulnerability timer be after anchoring/unanchoring?
How long to put online/offline, if this even happens now?
surely a station would have shields armour and hull available when anchored and not when unanchored (systems are shut down)?
Could do with some clarification and an example here I think. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1684
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Posted - 2015.09.22 22:30:46 -
[17] - Quote
OK, so for anchoring it takes a full repair timer to become fully operational.
For unanchoring I thought the 24 hrs was before you could unanchor to guarantee the structure would still be there when a wardec kicks in. what happens after the unanchor is still not clear to me, is it the repair cycle before you can scoop? |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1685
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Posted - 2015.09.24 08:46:10 -
[18] - Quote
Mikhem wrote:Structure capture mechanism is planned to be returned to old way which means capital ships taking away hit points. I propose hybrid model (old and new) for structure capture.
1. First you need to destroy structure shields and structure goes to reinforcement. Then you need to destroy armor + reinforcement and then structure to zero.
2. Then structure gets full hit points and structure is in freeport mode and command nodes are activated. Who wins this command node warfare gets structure control. Shooting structure with capital ships when it is in freeport mode is useless.
Comments are welcome for my idea.
Structures have to be destroyed to drive the market in producing them, otherwise gradually construction will die as the number of structures reaches a saturation point. Capture mechanics serve no purpose except in sov warfare to define area control, and even then it should only be on an area and not on physical assets. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1685
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 08:48:10 -
[19] - Quote
Justa Hunni wrote:Black Pedro wrote:
It's been all downhill since CCP made highsec both the safest and most lucrative sector of the space in the game in an attempt to cater to these PvP-averse highsec residents.
Wow, you really believe that??? I've lived in Null for the better part of a year and it is much safer and considerably more lucrative than it was in highsec. Maybe you should leave your CODE fleets and go experience more of the game, you seem that have a warped view of it.
It's one thing that does confuse me when people go to hisec where people stay to try to avoid combat and then complain that the players there are risk averse...
It all depends on what you mean by risk averse anyway. Many people will risk billions of isk in manufacture etc which is at the mercy of the markets but will avoid PvP combat by any and every means they can. Risk is still risk however whether it is on the market, sat in a barge, running through null for relics or simply shooting someone. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
1708
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Posted - 2015.10.08 08:15:16 -
[20] - Quote
Citadels themselves won't be so expensive as such, it'll be the rigs on them that give bonuses to the services that will cost large sums.
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